"Begin at the beginning,and go on till you come to the end: then stop." (Lewis Carroll, 1832-1896)

Alice came to a fork in the road. "Which road do I take?" she asked."Where do you want to go?" responded the Cheshire cat."I don't know," Alice answered."Then," said the cat, "it doesn't matter."

"So long as I get somewhere," Alice added as an explanation. "Oh, you're sure to do that," said the Cat, "if you only walk long enough."

"All right," said the Cat; and this time it vanished quite slowly, beginning with the end of the tail, and ending with the grin, which remained some time after the rest of it had gone. "Well! I've often seen a cat without a grin," thought Alice; "but a grin without a cat! It's the most curious thing I ever saw in my life!"

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Location: Australia

I am diagonally parked in a parallel universe. Like Arthur Dent from "Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy", if you do not have a Babel Fish in your ear this blog will be completely unintelligible to you and will read something like this: "boggle, google, snoggle, slurp, slurp, dingleberry to the power of 10". Fortunately, those who have had the Babel Fish inserted in their ear, will understood this blog perfectly. If you are familiar with this technology, you will know that the Babel Fish lives on brainwave radiation. It excretes energy in the form of exactly the correct brainwaves needed by its host to understand what was just said; or in this case, what was read. The Babel Fish, thanks to scientific research, reverses the problem defined by its namesake in the Tower of Babel, where a deity was supposedly inspired to confuse the human race by making them unable to understand each other.


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Tuesday, January 23, 2007

Were Adam And Eve Framed?

How could adam and eve know that it was wrong to disobey god if they had no knowledge of good and evil? Why would an omnipresent god, (one who is everywhere at once), allow the snake to tempt eve? Why would an omniscient god, (one who knows everything), allow eve to be tempted knowing that eve WOULD be tempted?

According to the bible this is the sequence of the relevant events.

Genesis 2:8-18 "And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. 15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. 18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

Ok, that is the background. God created a garden called eden and he placed a man and a woman, who he also created in the garden and he commanded the man not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Now also in this garden was a snake or serpent, which god had also created. (Genesis 1:25 "And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.")

Adam, who was the first to be told not to eat of the tree of good and evil must have gone on to tell eve, because when the snake tempts eve, eve replies - Genesis 3:3 "But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die." The snake then goes on to tell eve that they won't die but that they will be like gods as they will know good and evil. (Genesis 3:4-5 "And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

Hang on. That means that adam and eve had no knowledge of what was good and what was evil as the bible states that it is AFTER they eat the fruit from the tree that they will know good from evil. So how could they know it was wrong to eat the fruit in the first place? And just as importantly, how could they know that it was wrong to disobey god and wrong to listen to the snake? Something isn't right here.

Adam and eve, after eating the fruit, realized that they were naked. Apparently being naked is a bad thing as they then proceeded to cover their "naughty bits" with a leaf or two. God gets a bit stroppy about this and says: - (Genesis3: 11 "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?") So, god now realizes that adam and eve have acquired the knowledge of good and evil AFTER eating the fruit, and that they did NOT know good from evil prior to eating the fruit.

So adam and eve only gained the knowledge of good and evil AFTER they had eaten of the fruit, they had no idea what good and evil was before that time. If they only gained the knowledge of good and evil after they ate the fruit, they obviously did not know that it was evil/bad to eat the fruit in the first place.

Let's now discuss the issue of an omnipresent god. If god is omnipresent, that is he is everywhere at once, god must have been able to see and hear the snake tempting eve. If that is the case, why didn't he just kick the snake out of the way before it could open its yap? Surely he wouldn't have wanted adam and eve to be tempted? I dunno. Maybe he was busy finishing off the fjords at the time and wasn't paying attention.

And why would an omniscient god, one who knows everything, NOT know that the snake was going to tempt eve and that he would be successful in this venture? An omnicient god should have known that the snake was going to successfully tempt eve, so why would he have put the snake there in the first place?

"In The Garden Of Eden" by - I. Ron. Butterfly

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Blogger Krystalline Apostate said...

Strong points all.
Hadn't occurred to me about the decided 'lack of knowledge of G&E' prior to consumption. Excellent!
Love the reference to Hitchhiker's Guide, BTW.

23/1/07 12:40 pm  
Blogger Krystalline Apostate said...

Hey, multiple cool. Posts are going right thru? Got tired of the complaints about vanishing comments? ;)

23/1/07 12:42 pm  
Blogger beepbeepitsme said...

RE ka

Yeah, it seemed to happen when I switched to the new blogger, so I just altered the comment moderation thingee. (Yes, a technical term, I know..)

23/1/07 1:06 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think I read somewhere that god works in mysterious ways. So... There's your answer young lady.

While it is good to question the workings of the allmighthe biggness, we must all refrain from looking too deeply into his thingys, lest we be smote. Is it smote or is it smighted?

23/1/07 1:44 pm  
Blogger beepbeepitsme said...

RE remy:

Yes, to question is sinful and wicked.

I think it is smited, but don't quote me.

23/1/07 9:47 pm  
Blogger Coffee Messiah said...

Hard not to agree! ; )
I keep saying: if our fearless leader indeed spoke to god, as he declares, he'd a knocked him down long ago for all the death and destruction hes caused throughout the middle east and areas of the US! ; (

23/1/07 10:21 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Seems that god was naught but a big fat liar when it comes to what will and won't kill us, don't it?

It follows therefore, that what happened next was exactly what he wanted to happen. In which case, he's a cheating conniving sod with no respect for what he makes so I can do without him, thanks very much...!

23/1/07 10:55 pm  
Blogger beepbeepitsme said...

RE ted:

I have heard some theists say that adam and eve were immortal before they ate the fruit, but that eating the fruit, took away their immortality and that is why humans die.

This totally disregards the next part in Genesis 3:22&24 where god expels adam and eve from the garden so that they could not eat from the tree of life and live forever.

22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

24 "So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life."

23/1/07 11:23 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yeah, I used to hear that quite a bit and it's quite felonious, as you point out.

But I do like this bit:

22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us

Seems its implying there's more than one of him too, doesn't it?

The theory that comes from that of course, is that god and the devil are one and the same entity.

23/1/07 11:56 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

beep beep, your going to hell. Have fun slut.

24/1/07 4:10 am  
Blogger Frank Walton said...

What comment? You realize I have an imposter don't you? Check it out. He's been going all over the place pretending to be me. There's nothing I can do about it.

24/1/07 6:31 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Frank Walton, you're still an asshole regardless. Ive read your blog.

24/1/07 6:54 am  
Blogger Krystalline Apostate said...

Yo, frances!
You realize I have an imposter don't you?
We're to assume you didn't just call BBIM a...loosie goosie?
Despite our differences, you've got my sympathies (if true: most of what I've read about you leads me to be somewhat distrustful of you).
You never answered my query from a prior thread:
Can you go a week, or even a month, w/o bashing atheists? On your blog, or anyone else's?

24/1/07 8:54 am  
Blogger beepbeepitsme said...

RE ted:
It does imply that god is more than one. Weird. I had never looked at that like that before.

24/1/07 9:00 am  
Blogger beepbeepitsme said...

RE coffee: Nice to see you. :)

RE: frank: Not so nice to see you..

24/1/07 9:01 am  
Blogger Krystalline Apostate said...

Here's the info
"The historic and linguistic evidence and the ambiguous use of the word in the Old Testament suggest that the Israelites borrowed the Canaanite plural noun Elohim and made it singular in their religious texts. Many biblical scholars believe that this is evidence of the polytheistic and henotheistic roots of Judaism."

As an aside, I installed an '' applet into my browsers, so I can right-click an outlined word, & 'look this up on' shows up on the menu.
Pretty neat, no?

24/1/07 9:04 am  
Blogger beepbeepitsme said...

Tsk tsk frank, try and be an adult and play nicely.

24/1/07 9:04 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Beep: I must admit, I'm surprised. Christians will tell you he's talking to the angels, but I reckon KA's much closer to the mark.

24/1/07 10:14 am  
Blogger beepbeepitsme said...

RE ka and ted:

Yes, the suggestion that the word elohim has plural origins makes sense. So does the concept of the jewish god evolving from previous religious beliefs.

24/1/07 10:17 am  
Blogger beepbeepitsme said...

Adam was walking around the Garden of Eden feeling very lonely, so God asked Adam, “What is wrong with you?” Adam said he didn’t have anyone to talk to. God said he was going to give him a companion and she would be called woman.

God said, “This person will cook for you and wash your clothes, she will always agree with every decision you make. She will bear your children and never ask you to get up in the middle of the night to take care of them. She will not nag you, and will always be the first to admit she was wrong when you’ve had a disagreement. She will never have a headache, and will freely give “love” and compassion whenever needed.” Adam asked God, “What will this woman cost?” God said, “An arm and a leg.” Adam said, “What can I get for just a rib?”

The rest is history…

24/1/07 11:14 am  
Blogger Krystalline Apostate said...

Hee-HEE, good joke, Beep.
Oh, here's a good quote, for Frances:
"I have hated the congregation of evildoers; and will not sit with the wicked" (Psalm 26:5).
I wonder if hit&run posting counts? ;)

24/1/07 11:36 am  
Blogger terri said...

Hey beepbeep.

You come to my blog, leave a one-liner, a URL, and no actual comment. What's up with that?

You made me have to find your blog and read through your whole spiel about Adam and Eve and now it's late and I am too tired to comment. :-(

Catch you later!

24/1/07 3:39 pm  
Blogger Krystalline Apostate said...

OMG, someone actually BELIEVES that story? Literally? You GOTTA be kiddin' me.
Beyond belief is just such an...inadequate phrase. Dumbfounded is better.

24/1/07 5:02 pm  
Blogger beepbeepitsme said...

RE terri:

Sometimes when I write an article, I have a look through blogger to see if anyone has commented on the same topic as I have. If I think they may be interested in my take on a subject, I sometimes leave the address of my topic so they can read it if they would like to.

I find that this generates conversation and discussion. Of course that everyone will agree on my take on a topic, nor will I agree on theirs, but it is interesting to read other views.

24/1/07 6:09 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh Beepbeep,
You know you are a drug induced whore.

I wonder how many mens DNA are in your panies. You should showre more, slut.

24/1/07 6:12 pm  
Blogger Krystalline Apostate said...

Frances the talking mule - all I hear is 'Hee-HAW!' outta you.
I think Frances has a thing for you, BBIM. (Not a good thing, I know)
Real tough guy, picking on women. What a wuss.

24/1/07 6:54 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lol! Nice one Beep...:)

Panies? What the hell does that mean?

24/1/07 8:12 pm  
Blogger beepbeepitsme said...

Panies? I don't wear "panies" or "panties". I am a slut remember? (smiles graciously at the troll) :)

24/1/07 9:12 pm  
Blogger Baconeater said...

Eve didn't wear panties either. She must have been a slut too.

25/1/07 1:46 am  
Blogger Krystalline Apostate said...

You mean mitochondrial Eve? ;)

25/1/07 5:34 am  
Blogger The Uncredible Hallq said...

Beep beep-

Yes, Frank's a nasty one, but the comment calling you a slut wasn't left by him. Notice how it doesn't have the icon, whereas the second one, saying "I have an imposter," does have the icon.

Could you do me a favor, go into your sitemeter and try to get the city/state of the imposter? It could be helpful to me in sorting out the mess I've described at my blog.

25/1/07 3:32 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

And why would an omniscient god, one who knows everything, be so utterly oblivious to what just transpired as he walked in the garden in the cool of the day?

25/1/07 3:47 pm  
Blogger beepbeepitsme said...

RE hallq:

I did notice that he has 2 blogs operating. One blog has a link to his icon (picture) and the other doesn't. Are both those blogs his? Or does one belong to another person?

I will check my site meter and see if I can garner some info.

25/1/07 4:32 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

hi beepbeep,
got here from a link u left in my work blog (national library board, singapore). personally, i'm interested mythology <-> religion as well. Do you have an email contact?

25/1/07 5:23 pm  
Blogger Sarah said...

I like your logic, beep beep. This is probably why you can have such a field day with the Bible. Logic is not one of its fortés. This is why you have to suspend belief to have faith in it.

Frankly, it's an imposition expecting anyone to believe it's literal, especially in this day and age. I mean, that Creationist museum I talked about in my blog shows pictures of dinosaurs frolicking about with Adam & Eve, and people actually believe that BLATANTLY fabricated nonsense. So the idea that you'll believe any old rubbish to prove how devout you are is still alive and pushing us forwards to the Dark Ages.

I like your blog. I'll be back!

25/1/07 9:16 pm  
Blogger beepbeepitsme said...

RE sarah:

Thanks for dropping by and for your comments.

26/1/07 12:21 pm  
Blogger Mark Coté said...

As a Christian, I'd like to apologize for Frank Walton. He's not doing us any good.

28/1/07 4:38 pm  
Blogger beepbeepitsme said...

RE hg

Thank you, but really people like frank don't bother me much.

I suppose the reason is, when it comes down to it, is that what someone like frank thinks of me, is of no importance to me at all.

28/1/07 4:57 pm  
Blogger said...

Those last two paragraphs were very funny.

29/1/07 7:11 am  
Blogger beepbeepitsme said...

RE under

Well I am glad you found them amusing. Now, in what way did you find them amusing? ;)

30/1/07 10:48 am  

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