Alice came to a fork in the road. "Which road do I take?" she asked."Where do you want to go?" responded the Cheshire cat."I don't know," Alice answered."Then," said the cat, "it doesn't matter."
"So long as I get somewhere," Alice added as an explanation. "Oh, you're sure to do that," said the Cat, "if you only walk long enough."
"All right," said the Cat; and this time it vanished quite slowly, beginning with the end of the tail, and ending with the grin, which remained some time after the rest of it had gone. "Well! I've often seen a cat without a grin," thought Alice; "but a grin without a cat! It's the most curious thing I ever saw in my life!"
- Name: beepbeepitsme
- Location: Australia
I am diagonally parked in a parallel universe. Like Arthur Dent from "Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy", if you do not have a Babel Fish in your ear this blog will be completely unintelligible to you and will read something like this: "boggle, google, snoggle, slurp, slurp, dingleberry to the power of 10". Fortunately, those who have had the Babel Fish inserted in their ear, will understood this blog perfectly. If you are familiar with this technology, you will know that the Babel Fish lives on brainwave radiation. It excretes energy in the form of exactly the correct brainwaves needed by its host to understand what was just said; or in this case, what was read. The Babel Fish, thanks to scientific research, reverses the problem defined by its namesake in the Tower of Babel, where a deity was supposedly inspired to confuse the human race by making them unable to understand each other.
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"DIFFICILE EST SATURAM NON SCRIBERE"
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Top Ten Reasons Why Men Should Not Be Ordained: ~
- 10. A man's place is in the army.
- 9. For men who have children, their duties might distract them from the responsibilities of being a parent.
- 8. Their physical build indicates that men are more suited to tasks such as chopping down trees and wrestling mountain lions. It would be "unnatural" for them to do other forms of work.
- 7. Man was created before woman. It is therefore obvious that man was a prototype. Thus, they represent an experiment, rather than the crowning achievement of creation.
- 6. Men are too emotional to be priests or pastors. This is easily demonstrated by their conduct at football games and watching basketball tournaments.
- 5. Some men are handsome; they will distract women worshipers.
- 4. To be ordained pastor is to nurture the congregation. But this is not a traditional male role. Rather, throughout history, women have been considered to be not only more skilled than men at nurturing, but also more frequently attracted to it. This makes them the obvious choice for ordination.
- 3. Men are overly prone to violence. No really manly man wants to settle disputes by any means other than by fighting about it. Thus, they would be poor role models, as well as being dangerously unstable in positions of leadership.
- 2. Men can still be involved in church activities, even without being ordained. They can sweep paths, repair the church roof, and maybe even lead the singing on Father's Day. By confining themselves to such traditional male roles, they can still be vitally important in the life of the Church.
- 1. In the New Testament account, the person who betrayed Jesus was a man. Thus, his lack of faith and ensuing punishment stands as a symbol of the subordinated position that all men should take.
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21 Comments:
Rock on!!!
Men are better at leading and command more respect. Of course they should be ordained.
RE jeffiepoopoo: Either you are not a man, or you are incapable of commanding respect.
Re jeffiepoopoo: Or both. :)
Women are too emotional to be effective leaders. That's why you won't see a female president of the USA.
Also, Eve tempted Adam with the apple. Women can't be trusted.
Men have been known to chop off a bit of their penis and give it to god as a present; as a pledge of their subordination and loyalty.
Having considered this ancient religious ritual and how it has influenced the men in the 3 abrahamic religions, I have decided that men are incapable of making rational, or sane decisions.
Though obviously they do make humorous ones. :)
Adam took the apple. Shows that men are gullible.
You mean, you like the look of an uncircumcised penis? *yuck*
Considering the esthetics and hygenic factors, I'd say circumcision is a very sane decision. Afterall, cleanliness is next to Godliness.
RE jeffie:
1. Jeffie is concerned about "THE LOOK" of an uncircumcised penis? I am wondering how many uncircumcised penises he has to look at? I guess his job as a "male for male protitute" entitles him to have an aesthetic concern about the look of an uncircumcised penis.
2. My comment about circumcision was not directed at modern justifications for circumcision and whether they are valid or invalid.
The origins of circumcision are in the religious tradition of lopping off a bit of penis to give as a "god pact." Please try to focus and stay on topic.
"The origins of circumcision are in the religious tradition of lopping off a bit of penis to give as a "god pact." Please try to focus and stay on topic."
+
"Having considered this ancient religious ritual and how it has influenced the men in the 3 abrahamic religions, I have decided that men are incapable of making rational, or sane decisions."
= Does not compute.
Only in Judaism was circumcision considered a covenant ceremony. Islam considered it a form of natural hygiene and Christianity doesn't require it at all.
Please try not to lump all of the Abrahamic religions into the same worldview. Thanks. :)
RE jeffie the troll:
The practice of male genital mutilation seems to have originated in eastern Africa before the Biblical account of Abraham in Genesis 17.
Circumcision began as a way of "purifying" individuals and society by reducing sexuality and sexual pleasure.
This practice has continued into the 21st century because religious groups have viewed the practice of circumcision as a way of reducing sexual pleasure.
Human sexuality was seen as dirty or impure in some societies; hence cutting off the pleasure-producing parts was the obvious way to "purify" someone.
The Jews adopted circumcision as a religious ritual and covenant with god, and preserved this prehistoric practice into modern times.
(The ancient gods seem to have had a pervert-like interest in genitals, not unlike their followers of today.)
Genesis 17:13,14 "Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant.
ANY uncircumcised male, who has NOT been circumcised in the flesh, will be CUT off from his people; he has broken my covenant."
So, the god of the old testament is saying that ANYONE (including those who call themselves christians), who has NOT been circumcised has broken the covenant with god.
Circumcision was literally the cut which connected males to the male god.
(Yes, jeffie, as a christian you also worship the supposed same god as the jews, so this includes you, as it also includes the muslims.
Unless of course you are going to say that you don't worship the god of the old testament, only the god of the new testament, which is patently ridiculous, so don't even attempt that excuse.)
Muslims practise circumcision because of judaism as Ishmael, to whom muslims trace their heritage; was the son of Abraham.
Genesis 17:23 "On that very day Abraham took his son Ishmael and all those born in his household or bought with his money, every male in his household, and circumcised them, as God told him.
24,25,26 Abraham was ninety-nine years old when he was circumcised, and his son Ishmael was thirteen; Abraham and his son Ishmael were both circumcised on that same day.
27 And EVERY male in Abraham's household, including those born in his household or bought from a foreigner, was circumcised with him."
So, EVERY male who worships the god of the bible is to be circumcised, or they have betrayed this covenant.
Circumcision was further encouraged in the 1800's when the use of the radical Hebrew circumcision known as the peri'ah, was introduced in England and the US.
In the peri'ah procedure, the foreskin is stripped away from the glans, with which it is fused in the infant.
With the introduction of peri'ah, the glans could not easily be recovered, and so no Jewish male would easily be able to appear as an uncircumcised Greek.
(The Greeks were looked upon as pagans, but luckily, they had laws which allowed them to keep their foreskins.)
With support from the christian lobby, who considered masturbation to be potentially immoral/sinful or physically unhealthy; routine circumcision of male babies was imposed in an attempt to prevent masturbation.
Afterall, circumcision was seen as a christian "pre-emptive strike" against potential masturbation as it is "better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell" Matthew 5:27-30.
So, the poor old foreskin was doomed by the 3 abrahamic religions.
Jeffie, I am sure god loves wearing his "coat of many foreskins" and that he is also thankful for your tiny contribution to it.
"So, the god of the old testament is saying that ANYONE (including those who call themselves christians), who has NOT been circumcised has broken the covenant with god."
No, this is patently misleading. Christians were not around in the Old Testament times so it clearly could not apply to them. Furthermore, with the arrival of God's Son, Jesus, a New Testament and covenant was made with man (who clearly was not capable of following the Law). Some accepted this new covenant (Christians) and some did not (Jews, Muslims,etc).
"Yes, jeffie, as a christian you also worship the supposed same god as the jews, so this includes you, as it also includes the muslims."
Yes, the same God is worshipped, but the covenants are different. Faith, without an emphasis on works is the Christian approach. Works is emphasised in Judaism as well as Islam.
I thought you knew this stuff? Guess I better take it slow....
RE jeffie the troll:
"Christians were not around in the Old Testament times so it clearly could not apply to them."
WRONG
You worship the god of the old testament, the bible could not be more clear on this.
Genesis 17:13,14 "Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant.
ANY uncircumcised male, who has NOT been circumcised in the flesh, will be CUT off from his people; he has broken my covenant."
Let me say it again.
"ANY uncircumcised male, who has NOT been circumcised in the flesh, will be CUT off from his people; he has broken my covenant."
Jeffie the troll, you were not born at the time of the bible either, but it is clearly meant to be a covenant for those who worship the god of the old testament.
It is irrelevant that you call yourself, jew, christian or muslim, because if you have the blood line from abraham (which all 3 religions do), you are told to keep the covenant.
("Allah in Arabic is a contraction for al-ilah, "the-God," and as such is cognate with Hebrew eloh, "god" (plural of abstraction, elohim, "deity").
"....back in the seventh century, the first Muslims were using the same kind of word in Arabic that the Jews were using theologically in Hebrew and using it in the same way.")
http://www.slate.com/id/2092762/
Jews and christians through the shared lineage of isaac, are meant to have the cut (circumcision), which will enure that they are NOT cut off from god.
Muslims because of the lineage of abraham's son, ishmael, ALSO have the cut (circumcision), which will ensure that they are NOT cut off from god.
The Quran states that Muslims, Jews and Christians worship the same God (Sura 29:46).
Which certainly would explain why they ALL get a bit of peepee chopped off. :)
I shall repeat:
Yes, the same God is worshipped, but the covenants are different. Faith, without an emphasis on works is the Christian approach. Works is emphasised in Judaism as well as Islam.
Jesus, the Son of God, came to die for our sins. It is through belief and faith in him, alone, that we are saved. Not through works such as circumcision or praying 5 times a day at specific times, or any other physical act.
Baaah - If women were ordained, there would be a different Holy War every month! Darn PMT!
Procrastinatrix said - Adam took the apple. Shows that men are gullible.
I agree! most of us guys are gullible! We are fools working all week while the other half sits at home watching soaps all day. I know the reply - women work too! Right? Yeah, sat down all day at work gossiping and watching soaps! I know the score! heh
1 Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. < Best verse in the Bible! tis proof that the Bible is written by Man - and even that couldn't keep the natural naggers quiet!
As for Jeffs> the esthetics of a circumcised tadger - lol At least I can beautify mine with a bunch of roses and not just one! (Don’t try to picture it - heh)
Do you like roses beep? :) lol
RE jeffie the troll:
Now, did I say anything about circumcision offering salvation?
No, I did not.
Anyone, including christians, who worship the god of the old testament, is to have the "most humorous cut of all" or they will be cut off from god and from his people.
Quick reminder:~~
Genesis 17:13,14 "Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant.
ANY uncircumcised male, who has NOT been circumcised in the flesh, will be CUT off from his people; he has broken my covenant."
Does it mention "salvation"? No.
It does mention a covenant. So, what is a covenant and specifically what is a biblical covenant?
COVENANT:
1.A binding agreement; a compact.
2.A formal sealed agreement or contract.
3.A suit to recover damages for violation of such a contract.
4.In the Bible, God's promise to the human race.
Oh, there it is>>> 4.In the Bible, God's promise to the human race.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/covenant
What was god's promise as a result of circumcision?
This is what god of the old testament promised if all the guys got their penis chopped.
Genesis 17: 4-8
>> and God said to Abraham, "As for me, this is my covenant with you: You will be the father of many nations. No longer will you be called Abram; your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations. I will make you very fruitful; I will make nations of you, and kings will come from you. I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you. The whole land of Canaan, where you are now an alien, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God."
So the covernant between Abraham and god does not offer salvation it offers these things:
1. Abraham will be the father of many nations.
2. His new name will be Abraham not Abram.
3. Abraham's people will be very fruitful.
4. There will be many nations and kings will come from Abraham.
5. The covernant will be everlasting.
6.The land of Caanan will be given to Abraham's decendants forever and God will rule over them.
So, circumcision did not offer everlasting life after death. But it was and IS (if you believe in the bible), a covenant(an agreement) between men and god.
lol@ COD!
But no lending "jeffie the troll" any moral support. He literally believes things like that in the bible how women should be quiet. (blah blah blah)
But, I agree, it is obviously a book written by men for men as the majority of people won't accept the sexism in the bible as secular law.
(And, I am not sure what image I am supposed to get with the roses? But I do hope they are thornless. Ouchie. :)
Genesis 17:13,14 "Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant.
ANY uncircumcised male, who has NOT been circumcised in the flesh, will be CUT off from his people; he has broken my covenant."
This quote is speaking to Abraham and his descendants that follow the written Law (Jews). At the time it was written, God was only speaking to Jews. Along with every other written Law in the Old Testament, this changed with Jesus' arrival. Gentiles also became included. It is quite clear that God was not speaking about Christians or any other people at the time Genesis was written.
RE jeffie the troll~
The original covenant god made with Abraham included Isaac and Ishmael and all the slaves.
(Slaves would have been gentiles even if they were not called as such.)
Genesis 17:13,14 "Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant.
Slaves are to be circumcised. Slaves are not jews and yet they are to be circumcised. As a gentile, your circumcision has been bought and paid for you just don't know it.
And because the covenant included Ismael this is why circumcision is also a covenant with muslims.
"Slaves are to be circumcised. Slaves are not jews and yet they are to be circumcised. As a gentile, your circumcision has been bought and paid for you just don't know it."
This was only true if they wanted to join in the Passover celebrations.
Was circumcision ever a Christian tradition?
Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant churches never adopted circumcision. Circumcision was condemned in The Ecumenical Council of Florence on 4 February 1442. One exception was the Coptic Church in Egypt, and the Council condemned this practice amongst them. Routine infant circumcision never took off in Europe but circumcision enthusiasts promoted it in English-speaking countries from the late Victorian era. As a result, some Christians have been misled into believing that Christianity recommends circumcision. This is simply not true.
http://www.cirp.org/pages/cultural/glass2/
RE jeffie the troll:
I don't think the gentile slaves wanted to partake in the passover.
Their jewish owners wanted them to perhaps.
It is true that Paul, (as an orthodox jew), denounced circumcision as heathen mutilation, but does Paul have the authority over the covenant between Abraham and god?
I suppose as a christian, you believe he does. If you recognise the hierarchy of religious authority, it is something like this>> 1.god 2.abraham 3.saul/paul.
So paul has no right to attempt to dissolve the covenenat.
The christian lobby in victorian times certainly DID promote circumcision.
And it was called the "Victorian Era" because of the authority that Queen Victoria assumed as the head of the protestant church in England.
The victorians were very concerned about sex and religion. There was much talk about "sexual sin" and how it was offensive to god.
The concept of "sexual sin" is why Queen Victoria and the religious conservatives supported circumcision.
Circumcision was promoted as a way to decrease sexuality and to disencourage masturbation.
It was also seen as a pre-emptive punishment for those who might indulge in or enjoy their sexual nature too much. (according to religious beliefs)
During the reign of Queen Victoria, circumcision was very widely practised, and the main reason for it was to "cure" masturbation.
Masturbation, or the "secret vice" was an enormous worry in both England and America at that time.
According to the experts of the day (religious experts more than likely), masturbation was responsible for sleeplessness, night terrors, frequent urination, bed-wetting, epilepsy, St Vitus's Dance, kidney disease and insanity.
Dr Kellogg, of Cornflakes fame, listed 38 suspicious signs by which habitual masturbators could be detected, and recommended the eating of his breakfast products to effect a cure. <<<<< LMAO
It was also widely charged around that time that once Jews became citizens, they would "take over" the country and enforce mass circumcision upon an unwilling English populace. Maybe they wanted christians to keep the covenant that abraham had with god? Who knows?
Basically, christian circumcision became more culturally popular because of the continuing misinformation concerning sex and sin.
Oh, and because of their desire to be wannabe jews.
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