"Begin at the beginning,and go on till you come to the end: then stop." (Lewis Carroll, 1832-1896)

Alice came to a fork in the road. "Which road do I take?" she asked."Where do you want to go?" responded the Cheshire cat."I don't know," Alice answered."Then," said the cat, "it doesn't matter."

"So long as I get somewhere," Alice added as an explanation. "Oh, you're sure to do that," said the Cat, "if you only walk long enough."

"All right," said the Cat; and this time it vanished quite slowly, beginning with the end of the tail, and ending with the grin, which remained some time after the rest of it had gone. "Well! I've often seen a cat without a grin," thought Alice; "but a grin without a cat! It's the most curious thing I ever saw in my life!"

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Location: Australia

I am diagonally parked in a parallel universe. Like Arthur Dent from "Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy", if you do not have a Babel Fish in your ear this blog will be completely unintelligible to you and will read something like this: "boggle, google, snoggle, slurp, slurp, dingleberry to the power of 10". Fortunately, those who have had the Babel Fish inserted in their ear, will understood this blog perfectly. If you are familiar with this technology, you will know that the Babel Fish lives on brainwave radiation. It excretes energy in the form of exactly the correct brainwaves needed by its host to understand what was just said; or in this case, what was read. The Babel Fish, thanks to scientific research, reverses the problem defined by its namesake in the Tower of Babel, where a deity was supposedly inspired to confuse the human race by making them unable to understand each other.


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Monday, November 13, 2006

Ken Miller - On Apes and Humans


The second thing you saw at the trial was that when data was introduced at the trial which I and another witness introduced from whole genome sequencing , the ID advocates literally had nothing to say. We weren't asked questions in cross examination, the other side never brought it up, they never argued against it, they just left it.

Here's an example : - Many of you may know that a few months ago that the genetic code of the chimpanzee was published. Therefore we can compare our genome to these primate relatives. What do we find? I want to show you one striking finding that dates to about a year ago. You all know that evolution argues that we share a common ancestor with the great apes, the chimpanzees, the gorilla and the orangutan.

Well, if that's true, there should be genetic similarities and in fact there are. But there's something that's really interesting and has the potential, if it were true, to contradict evolutionary common ancestry. And that is that we have 2 fewer chromosomes than the other great apes. We have 46 and they all have 48. Now that's very interesting. Now what does that actually mean? Well, first of all, the 46 chromosomes that we have have, you got 23 from mom and 23 from dad, so its actually 23 pairs. These guys have 24 from each parent, so they have 24 pairs.

So everybody in this room is missing a pair of chromosomes. Now where did it go? Could it have gotten lost in our lineage? If it got lost, if a whole primate chromosome was lost, that would be lethal. So, there's only 2 possibilities. And that is, if these guys really share a common ancestor, that ancestor either had 48 chromozomes or 46. Now, if it had 48, 24 pairs which is probably true because 3 out of 4 have 48 chromozomes, what must have happened is that one pair of chromosomes must have gotten fused.

So, we should be able to look at our genome and discover that one of our chromosomes resulted from the fusion of 2 primate chromosomes. So we should be able to look around our genome, and you know, if we don't find it, evolution is wrong. We don't share a common ancestor. So how would we find it? Biologists in the room would know that chromosomes have nifty little markers. They have markers called centromeres which are DNA sequences which are used to separate them during mitosis and they have cool little DNA sequences on the end called telomeres.

What would happen if a pair of chromosomes got fused? Well, what would happen is that the fusion would put telomeres where they don't belong in the center of the chromosome and the resulting fused chromosome should actually have 2 centromeres. One of them might become inactivated, but nonetheless, it should still be there. So we can scan our genome, and you know what if we don't find that chromosome, evolution is in trouble.

Well, guess what? It's chromosome number 2. Our chromosome number 2 was formed by the fusion of 2 primate chromosomes. This is the paper from 'Nature' a little more than a year ago and I put up a little of the paper. I am sorry it's technical but look at what it says: " Chromosome 2 is unique to our lineage. It emerged as the result of the head to head fusion of 2 chromosomes which remain separate in other primates."

Those of you who have not kept up with how much we know about the genome should pay attention to this cause you will be amazed at how precisely we can look at things. The precise fusion site has been located at base number 114, 455, 823 - 214, 455,838. In other words within 15 bases. And the other thing you'll notice is multiple sub-telemeric duplications; the telemeres that don't belong and low and behold, the centremere which is inactivated corresponds to chimp chromozome number 13.

It's there. It's testable. It's confirms the prediction of evolution. How would ID explain this? Only one way. By shrugging and saying, "That's the way the designer made it. No reason. No rhyme. Presumably there is a designer who designed human chromozome number 2 to make it look like it was fused by the fusion of a primate ancestor."

I'm a roman catholic. I'm a theist in the broadest sense. I would say I believe in a designer but you know, I don't believe in a deceptive one. I don't believe in one who would do this to try to fool us. And therefore I think that this is authentic and I think it tells us something about our ancestors.


"If the question is put to me would I rather have a miserable ape for a grandfather or a man highly endowed by nature and possessed of great means of influence and yet who employs those faculties and that influence for the mere purpose of introducing ridicule into a grave scientific discussion—I unhesitatingly affirm my preference for the ape." - Thomas Henry Huxley

Hey! Hey! We're the Monkees!

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Blogger Matt Burge said...

Hello fellow Green Blogger,

Over at we have a poll running that we would like you to take part in if you wish.

The question runs; 'What do you think is the best way to tackle climate change?

Hope you have time to give your views on this very important issue.


15/11/06 1:19 am  
Blogger L>T said...

hi beep beep! thanks so much for that link. I was trying to understand what the hububaloo with genome discovery was about. Now I get it. Why aren't the ID people saying anything? they are getting their shifty little heads together to come up with some pablum for their sheep. I'll have to ask my mom about it. she's a crazy religious fanatic.

15/11/06 1:32 am  
Blogger Drunken Tune said...

That video is probably my favorite one you've posted yet. Thanks so much, beepbeep! I may have to post it over at my website with a link here. If that's ok with you, of course.

15/11/06 5:03 am  
Blogger Drunken Tune said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

15/11/06 5:04 am  
Blogger Bacon Eating Atheist Jew said...

But Ken Miller is talking about macro evolution, not micro evolution:)

15/11/06 6:14 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The best way to tackle climate change is for humans to return to the trees where they belong! Cheers.

15/11/06 8:00 am  
Blogger Bruce said...

I can remember that finding. Not so long ago, but certainly a golden moment in science...

15/11/06 9:15 am  
Blogger Bruce said...

Oh... and I was talking about the chromosomal fusion finding being a golden day for science. The ID trial finding in Kansas was a golden day for secular democracy and the rule of law.

15/11/06 9:19 am  
Blogger beepbeepitsme said...

RE: drunken tune

Go right ahead. No worries.

15/11/06 2:36 pm  
Blogger Renegade Eye said...

That post was a good weapon, in the arsenal against ID.

I added this blog to my blogroll.

15/11/06 3:47 pm  
Blogger beepbeepitsme said...

RE renegade:

Thanks. I will add you to my blogroll as well.

15/11/06 3:54 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Will someone please explain to me the significance of this revelation? Did anyone miss the fact that man was created on the same day as the animals? Doesn’t God leave in that alone a little hint that there are similarities, yet he doesn’t pick out an ape to carry his seed, he creates something unique, if all it took was a fused chromosome then it made his job easy I guess. Or wait! Maybe the fused chromosome isn’t what makes us different from the apes? Does anyone know? Maybe our fused chromosome is unique to humans through an accident passed on from Noah, like someone born with 4 fingers, and the significant differences are from elsewhere in the DNA. So I guess the challenge is out there to all the evolutionists now. Can you fuse a chromosome, and does that make a human? Was this an accident or was this intentional? He refers to a deception on God’s part? Really, what a joke. What is the actual deception he is referring to? I don’t see anywhere in the Bible where it says God is accountable to man, or where he gave man the plans for the human make up and “look, here is the difference between what he gave us and the facts”. No wonder no one said anything. There was nothing to say.


8/12/06 6:21 am  
Blogger beepbeepitsme said...

RE anon

I realize that this is distressing for you when science provides evidence of our ancestry. But you have only reiterated what is expected. And that is, that regardless of the evidence of the fusion of a chimp chromosome with a human's, you jump up and down on one leg and pout, "But god did it.!"

5/2/07 7:59 pm  
Anonymous Mike said...

This little "revelation" proves absolutely nothing other than that you can come up with an explanation that could, possibly, maybe, be the right one.

I will not hold my breath however, waiting for you to actually do something to confirm your evolutionary hypothesis.

This is exactly why Darwinism is in trouble, its defenders keep coming up with supposedly convincing arguments, which are not based upon objectively verifiable facts. Sure its an interesting hypothesis, but unless it can be systematically proven, and all other potential explanations ruled out, it ain't science.

1/3/13 9:43 am  

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