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"All right," said the Cat; and this time it vanished quite slowly, beginning with the end of the tail, and ending with the grin, which remained some time after the rest of it had gone. "Well! I've often seen a cat without a grin," thought Alice; "but a grin without a cat! It's the most curious thing I ever saw in my life!"

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Monday, September 25, 2006

Jesus Camp

Picture of the German belt-buckle. 'Gott mit uns' (God with us).
By now many of you will have seen the "Jesus Camp" video depicting some of the activities at Pastor Becky Fischer's Bible camp in North Dakota. Some of these activities include:
  • Speaking in tongues,
  • weeping for salvation,
  • praying for an end to abortion
  • and worshipping a picture of President Bush

"I want to see them as radically laying down their lives for the gospel as they are in Palestine, Pakistan and all those different places," Fisher said. "Because, excuse me, we have the truth."

"A lot of people die for God," one camper said, "and they're not afraid." "We're kinda being trained to be warriors," said another, "only in a funner way."

"It's an absolute, straight-up us-against-them," Sandler said. "It's, you're either with us or you're against us. … Not only are you a sinner, but you are working for the enemy — the enemy being Satan."

Some cheeky sod edited the Jesus Camp video to express his/her satirical opinion concerning the indocrination of these young people into "warriors for jesus."


None of this sounds terribly different to the indoctrination of some young muslims who are trained to be warriors for allah and to die for allah because they ALSO have an intractable faith that THEY claim is "the truth".

Some young muslims also see other religions, but especially christianity, as the great satan, in exactly the same way that these christian children in the Jesus Camp video are being indoctrinated to view islam as the great satan.

On both sides it is about indoctrinating children to: ~

  • obey the leader without question;
  • worship the leader because the leader is god's/allah's representative;
  • become "god/allah warriors" for their nations;
  • and to die for their intractable religious beliefs.

When muslims become the "new jews" and must be eliminated, and christians become the "new jews" and must be eliminated; what hope is there for a sane, rational world?


"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis



Blogger Todd Saunders said...

I agree with you Beep,
This is scary, wacko stuff. You certainly make your point about religion in general.

25/9/06 12:24 pm  
Blogger beepbeepitsme said...

RE todd:
It is a great example of how people interpret god/religion according to their belief system. I am sure that Becky Fisher doesn't see herself as encouraging religious violence, but then, maybe she agrees literally with ~~

"Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother- in-law...." - Matthew 10:34

Either way, the combination of
1. love the leader
2. fundamentalist religion
3. and die for god and country
is a dangerous, intolerant dynamic which is mirrored by other religons.

In my opinion, this dynamic should NOT be emulated.

25/9/06 2:09 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Because, excuse me, we have the truth..."

Oh my sacred monkey that's funny!! And the parody was hilarious too. Although as I said on my blog I thought it was more like the wingnut version of Lord of the Flies. Except it had more crazy piggies and talking tongues. Who will save the children from these nuts? As if we haven't made their world crazy enough...
Thanks Beep I needed a laugh :)

25/9/06 2:26 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

That parody was excellent, thanks Beep...:)

26/9/06 10:01 am  
Blogger Daniel said...

Funny coincidence, Beep. The post I put up this morning was on a similar topic. Must be telepathy!

People who do this to innocent kids should be put in jail. Cheers!

26/9/06 11:21 am  
Blogger beepbeepitsme said...

RE daniel: I am sure we are telepathic. ;)

Re ted: Anytime mate.

Re simon: Of course they all claim to have the truth, this is the interesting thing about religions. They basically make the same claims, "only the names have been changed to protect the innocent." (or the gulity or the ambivalent)

26/9/06 12:02 pm  
Blogger Stardust said...

BeepBeep...every time I see these Jesus Camp videos I get angrier and angrier. If religion wasn't involved, people would be arrested for emotional child abuse. Since religion is involved, it is allowed to go on and on in mass verbal abuse sessions. Telling kids they are somehow flawed, and evil, and need "forgiveness" because they are "bad". And people wonder why the need for school counseling is on the rise and children have problems with self-esteem and lack independence and self-confidence. They are taught that without their Jeebus they are worthless nothings.

I posted this parody on my website, as well. Hope you don't mind me stealing it but more people should post this stuff to let others know what crazy whacknuttery is going on in our world!

"Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother- in-law...." - Matthew 10:34

Religion is NOT a is the great divider.

27/9/06 2:20 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I can't wait unti I get a chance to see this film. I grew up in an evangelical family and the views expressed by Fisher is not so foreign to me. Even more disturbing than the indoctrination of children is the response to the film I have read at Many Christians brush the "bias" of the film off by saying that this is merely showing "extremists". These people are not extremists. These are very run-of-the-mill "born-again" Christians. These kids are not odd or special in any way. There are dozens of them in every school across North America. Ask any evangelical Christian on what effect it might have on them if their child rejected their faith. The majority of them would say something on the verge of disownment. That, my friend, is true indoctrination.

27/9/06 10:31 am  
Blogger Kristin said...

Becky Fisher scares me, as do just about all of the parents of the Jesus campers and most of the campers themselves.

27/9/06 10:45 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks Beep :)

I finally got around to looking at the rest of those links. Although the parody was pretty funny, this still scares the hell out of me and as Stardust says, it's no wonder kids today seem to need more and more counseling. And yes Stardust, Becky Fischer should definately be arrested!

27/9/06 10:52 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

More enemies of liberty. Externally, there's the Radical Muslims. Internally, we have our own nutjobs. That said, I really do feel sympathy for the kids, being brainwashed like that. To hate anyone who isn't an evangelical christial. Just. Like. Them. Spooky.

27/9/06 12:45 pm  
Blogger beepbeepitsme said...

RE brad:

Fortunately I was spared evangelical christianity. It was never as popular here as it appears to be in the US, though it has found its way here too.

I went to sunday school as a child and was taught about the belief system of christianity but it was never enforced at home in an extremist or dictatorial fashion.

I was never told, for example, that if I didn't do what I was told that I was going to hell or anything as psychologically abusive as that.

I learnt how to say grace (for social ocassions where it might be required), and to do "good deeds" without expecting a reward by some invisible being.

I was taught that if you do "bad things" that society had a method for punishing you if you were caught.

I was taught that it was mutally advantageous for people to obey many, if not all of the rules in a society.

That is, you didn't steal because you didn't want people to steal from you. You didn't lie because you didn't want people to lie to you.

Basically, the golden rule. Treat others as you would be treated. Do I make mistakes? Sure.

But I think my social conscience and my sense of responsibility to myself and others, was enhanced more through reason, than any of the religious doctrine I was offered as a child.

27/9/06 1:23 pm  
Blogger Lady Attis said...

As an American, an atheist, and an rational being, I am gravely concerned by this movement toward irrationality and social proof for the seeming [read as fallacious] validity of certain ideas and/or principles. If this continues, I think it will be possible that a total inversion of our technological and social progress will be at hand. If there is to be any means to stem this change, it will come from our intellectuals, who have abandoned their posts decades ago, leaving for Post-Modern drivel and anti-science rhetoric. Now, more than ever, do I hope that people with the means, the will, and the wish to make a change for the better will do so now. I know I am. Are you?

-- Bridget Armozel

4/10/06 4:07 pm  
Blogger beepbeepitsme said...

RE bridget:

Hey! Good to see you here. Thanks for adding your comments.

Obviously many people are concerned with the support of irrational beliefs over the use of reason.

Faith is a form of non-thinking which has become so popular as to throw modern civilizations back to the theocratic states that people struggled so valiantly and dare I say it, HEROICALLY, to escape from.

4/10/06 5:49 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Worshipping a picture of President Dubya???

Ok our country has COMPLETELY lost its mind

12/10/06 1:06 pm  
Blogger beepbeepitsme said...

RE wormbrain: Not completely, at least I hope not. The north may have to secede from the south, but no biggie ;)

Let the south pay for all their own unwed mothers and incest problems would be my solution.

12/10/06 10:06 pm  
Blogger 日月神教-任我行 said...


21/5/10 4:33 am  

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