"Begin at the beginning,and go on till you come to the end: then stop." (Lewis Carroll, 1832-1896)
Alice came to a fork in the road. "Which road do I take?" she asked."Where do you want to go?" responded the Cheshire cat."I don't know," Alice answered."Then," said the cat, "it doesn't matter."
"So long as I get somewhere," Alice added as an explanation. "Oh, you're sure to do that," said the Cat, "if you only walk long enough."
"All right," said the Cat; and this time it vanished quite slowly, beginning with the end of the tail, and ending with the grin, which remained some time after the rest of it had gone. "Well! I've often seen a cat without a grin," thought Alice; "but a grin without a cat! It's the most curious thing I ever saw in my life!"
I am diagonally parked in a parallel universe. Like Arthur Dent from "Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy", if you do not have a Babel Fish in your ear this blog will be completely unintelligible to you and will read something like this: "boggle, google, snoggle, slurp, slurp, dingleberry to the power of 10". Fortunately, those who have had the Babel Fish inserted in their ear, will understood this blog perfectly. If you are familiar with this technology, you will know that the Babel Fish lives on brainwave radiation. It excretes energy in the form of exactly the correct brainwaves needed by its host to understand what was just said; or in this case, what was read. The Babel Fish, thanks to scientific research, reverses the problem defined by its namesake in the Tower of Babel, where a deity was supposedly inspired to confuse the human race by making them unable to understand each other.
Beepbeepitsme has been added to The Atheist Blogroll. You can see the blogroll in my sidebar. The Atheist blogroll is a community building service provided free of charge to Atheist bloggers from around the world. If you would like to join, visit Mojoey at Deep Thoughts.
"Operationally, God is beginning to resemble not a ruler but the last fading smile of a cosmic Cheshire cat." - Sir Julian Huxley
"The time has come," the Walrus said, "To talk of many things: Of shoes and ships and sealing wax; Of cabbages and kings. And why the sea is boiling hot; And whether pigs have wings." - Lewis Carroll
"Who breaks a butterfly upon a wheel?" Alexander Pope
"The primary function of myth is to validate an existing social order. Myth enshrines conservative social values, raising tradition on a pedestal." Ann Oakley
"Some treat their longing for God as proof of His existence." Mason Cooley
"The god of the Christians, as we have seen, is the god who makes promises only to break them; who sends them pestilence and disease in order to heal them; a god who demoralizes mankind in order to improve it. A god who created man 'after his own image', and still the origin of evil in man is not accredited to him." Johann Most
"In love, we worry more about the meaning of silences than the meaning of words." Mason Cooley
"My philosophy is such that I am not going to vote against the oppressed. I have been oppressed, and so I am always going to have a vote for the oppressed, regardless of whether that oppressed is black or white or yellow or the people of the Middle East, or what. I have that feeling." Septima Clark
"Secular humanists suspect there is something more gloriously human about resisting the religious impulse; about accepting the cold truth, even if that truth is only that the universe is as indifferent to us as we are to it." Tom Flynn
"If the question is put to me would I rather have a miserable ape for a grandfather or a man highly endowed by nature and possessed of great means of influence and yet who employs those faculties and that influence for the mere purpose of introducing ridicule into a grave scientific discussion—I unhesitatingly affirm my preference for the ape." Thomas Henry Huxley
Project Gutenberg is the oldest producer of free ebooks on the Internet. The collection was produced by hundreds of volunteers.
"Give the right man a solar myth, and he'll confute the sun therewith." James Russell Lowell
"Oh let me see your beauty when the witnesses are gone. Let me feel you moving like they do in Babylon. Show me slowly what I only know the limits of. Dance me to the end of love." Leonard Cohen
"If God is male, then male is God. The divine patriarch castrates women as long as he is allowed to live on in the human imagination." Mary Daly
"If the people were a little more ignorant, astrology would flourish - if a little more enlightened, religion would perish." Robert Green Ingersoll
"In other words (so to speak): not two and also not not two." Magellan's Log V
"History is, strictly speaking, the study of questions; the study of answers belongs to anthropology and sociology." W.H. Auden
"Archaeology is the peeping Tom of the sciences. It is the sandbox of men who care not where they are going; they merely want to know where everyone else has been." Jim Bishop
"To excavate is to open a book written in the language that the centuries have spoken into the earth." Spyridon Marinatos
"Science commits suicide when it adopts a creed." Thomas Henry Huxley
"The place has changed but little since Diana received the homage of her worshippers in the sacred grove. The temple of the sylvan goddess, indeed, has vanished and the King of the Wood no longer stands sentinel over the Golden Bough." Sir James George Frazer
"Babylonian king (1792BCE–1750BCE) who made Babylon the chief Mesopotamian kingdom and codified the laws of Mesopotamia and Sumeria." The American Heritage
"We are ourselves history and share the responsibility for world history and our position in it. But we gravely lack awareness of this responsibility." Hermann Hesse
"Astrology: do we make a hullabaloo among the stars, or do they make a hullabaloo down here?" Mason Cooley
"Readers are plentiful: thinkers are rare." Harriet Martineau
"The Christian religion is a parody on the worship of the Sun, in which they put a man whom they call Christ, in the place of the Sun, and pay him the same adoration which was originally paid to the Sun." Thomas Paine
"Zoroaster was thus the first to teach the doctrines of an individual judgment, Heaven and Hell, the future resurrection of the body, the general Last Judgment, and life everlasting for the reunited soul and body. These doctrines were to become familiar articles of faith to much of mankind, through borrowings by Judaism, Christianity and Islam; yet it is in Zoroastrianism itself that they have their fullest logical coherence.†- Mary Boyce
"My esoteric doctrine, is that if you entertain any doubt, it is safest to take the unpopular side in the first instance. Transit from the unpopular, is easy ... but from the popular to the unpopular is so steep and rugged that it is impossible to maintain it." William Lamb Melbourne
"With reason one can travel the world over; without it it is hard to move an inch." Chinese proverb.
"Our earth is degenerate in these latter days. Bribery and corruption are common. Children no longer obey their parents. . . . The end of the world is evidently approaching." Sound familiar? It is, in fact, the lament of a scribe in one of the earliest inscriptions to be unearthed in Mesopotamia, where Western civilization was born. C. John Sommerville
"The sun, the moon and the stars would have disappeared long ago ... had they happened to be within the reach of predatory human hands." Havelock Ellis
"It (myth) expresses and confirms, rather than explains or questions, the sources of cultural attitudes and values... Because myth anchors the present in the past it is a sociological charter for a future society which is an exact replica of the present one." Ann Oakley
"Starry, starry night. Flaming flowers that brightly blaze, swirling clouds in violet haze, reflect in Vincent's eyes of china blue." Don McLean
"NOT from the stars do I my judgment pluck, and yet methinks I have astronomy, But not to tell of good or evil luck, Of plagues, of dearths, or seasons’ quality..." William Shakespeare
"Moreover, the universe as a whole is infinite, for whatever is limited has an outermost edge to limit it, and such an edge is defined by something beyond. Since the universe has no edge, it has no limit; and since it lacks a limit, it is infinite and unbounded. Moreover, the universe is infinite both in the number of its atoms and in the extent of its void." Epicurus
"Most people today still believe, perhaps unconsciously, in the heliocentric universe every newspaper in the land has a section on astrology, yet few have anything at all on astronomy." Hannes Alfven
This questionnaire is designed to test your attitudes to moral behaviour and to find out how socially responsible you are. It has 11 questions and should take about 10 minutes. You will be given a statement to read and asked how important you think it is. You will then be asked to pick a statement from a series of options that best represents your answer. It was designed by Dr Keith Coaley.
I have already done the test. I will post my results in due course for anyone who is interested. In the meantime, please post the results of your tests in the comments. Thank you for participating.
Your score puts you in the mature category of social reasoning and the majority of people will have scores in this range. Thinking here transcends the practicalities of one's preferences and exchanges to an emphasis upon social feeling, caring and conduct.
You take into account the consequences of actions for other people, whether for benefit or harm, as a consideration in its own right for deciding how one should act towards others. You emphasise relationships, thinking how you might feel if you were on the receiving end. Empathy is important, as well as compassion.
You are likely to expect others to conform to normally expected conduct, reflecting on "common decency" and will think of the chaos caused by laws being broken. You will value, love and respect others, and appreciate some higher values, as well as speaking of the benefits of a clean conscience or pride.
40 out of 44. 66% Your score puts you in the highest category of social reasoning. You will see ethical and moral values as important to the needs of society and will appeal to basic rights or values. You might say "Honesty is a standard which everyone should accept" or "Life is sacred."
Conformity to ethical norms is important to you, in terms of a responsibility, obligation or commitment for all individuals, although you may be willing to consider exceptions in some particular circumstances. You are likely to suggest that with entitlement or privilege comes responsibility.
You will appeal to considerations of responsible character or integrity in others, preferring a consistent or standard practice of behaviour in order to avoid damage to social institutions such as the legal system.
However, you will want to see an adjusted case-by-case application of standards for the sake of fairness to all people. Lastly, you are very likely to appeal to standards of individual or personal conscience, as well as of honour, dignity or integrity. Curious that behavior & honor were spelled the old-fashioned way.
Your score puts you in the mature category of social reasoning and the majority of people will have scores in this range. Thinking here transcends the practicalities of one's preferences and exchanges to an emphasis upon social feeling, caring and conduct.
You take into account the consequences of actions for other people, whether for benefit or harm, as a consideration in its own right for deciding how one should act towards others. You emphasise relationships, thinking how you might feel if you were on the receiving end. Empathy is important, as well as compassion.
You are likely to expect others to conform to normally expected conduct, reflecting on "common decency" and will think of the chaos caused by laws being broken. You will value, love and respect others, and appreciate some higher values, as well as speaking of the benefits of a clean conscience or pride.
Re KA: Curious that behavior & honor were spelled the old-fashioned way.
Your score puts you in the highest category of social reasoning. You will see ethical and moral values as important to the needs of society and will appeal to basic rights or values. You might say "Honesty is a standard which everyone should accept" or "Life is sacred."
Conformity to ethical norms is important to you, in terms of a responsibility, obligation or commitment for all individuals, although you may be willing to consider exceptions in some particular circumstances. You are likely to suggest that with entitlement or privilege comes responsibility.
You will appeal to considerations of responsible character or integrity in others, preferring a consistent or standard practice of behaviour in order to avoid damage to social institutions such as the legal system.
However, you will want to see an adjusted case-by-case application of standards for the sake of fairness to all people. Lastly, you are very likely to appeal to standards of individual or personal conscience, as well as of honour, dignity or integrity. This was mine. Maybe I need some re-adjustment to fit more easily into american society. I'm not the norm! ; (
your score puts you in the highest category of social reasoning. you will see ethical and moral values as important to the needs of society and will appeal to basic rights or values. you might say "honesty is a standard which everyone should accept" or "life is sacred."
conformity to ethical norms is important to you, in terms of a responsibility, obligation or commitment for all individuals, although you may be willing to consider exceptions in some particular circumstances. you are likely to suggest that with entitlement or privilege comes responsibility.
you will appeal to considerations of responsible character or integrity in others, preferring a consistent or standard practice of behaviour in order to avoid damage to social institutions such as the legal system.
however, you will want to see an adjusted case-by-case application of standards for the sake of fairness to all people. lastly, you are very likely to appeal to standards of individual or personal conscience, as well as of honour, dignity or integrity.
Your score puts you in the highest category of social reasoning. You will see ethical and moral values as important to the needs of society and will appeal to basic rights or values. You might say "Honesty is a standard which everyone should accept" or "Life is sacred."
Conformity to ethical norms is important to you, in terms of a responsibility, obligation or commitment for all individuals, although you may be willing to consider exceptions in some particular circumstances. You are likely to suggest that with entitlement or privilege comes responsibility.
You will appeal to considerations of responsible character or integrity in others, preferring a consistent or standard practice of behaviour in order to avoid damage to social institutions such as the legal system.
However, you will want to see an adjusted case-by-case application of standards for the sake of fairness to all people. Lastly, you are very likely to appeal to standards of individual or personal conscience, as well as of honour, dignity or integrity.
So, far, by my reckoning, only agnostics, skeptics or atheists have taken the challenge. Come on you believers, I know you are out there, come and do the questionnaire. :)
Your score puts you in the mature category of social reasoning and the majority of people will have scores in this range. Thinking here transcends the practicalities of one's preferences and exchanges to an emphasis upon social feeling, caring and conduct.
You take into account the consequences of actions for other people, whether for benefit or harm, as a consideration in its own right for deciding how one should act towards others. You emphasize relationships, thinking how you might feel if you were on the receiving end. Empathy is important, as well as compassion.
You are likely to expect others to conform to normally expected conduct, reflecting on "common decency" and will think of the chaos caused by laws being broken. You will value, love and respect others, and appreciate some higher values, as well as speaking of the benefits of a clean conscience or pride.
Here ya go. I forgot to get the number but here's what it said.
Your score puts you in the highest category of social reasoning. You will see ethical and moral values as important to the needs of society and will appeal to basic rights or values. You might say "Honesty is a standard which everyone should accept" or "Life is sacred."
Conformity to ethical norms is important to you, in terms of a responsibility, obligation or commitment for all individuals, although you may be willing to consider exceptions in some particular circumstances. You are likely to suggest that with entitlement or privilege comes responsibility.
You will appeal to considerations of responsible character or integrity in others, preferring a consistent or standard practice of behaviour in order to avoid damage to social institutions such as the legal system.
However, you will want to see an adjusted case-by-case application of standards for the sake of fairness to all people. Lastly, you are very likely to appeal to standards of individual or personal conscience, as well as of honour, dignity or integrity.
My return said the same as everyone's but Dikkii's. Dude!, guess that makes you the anti-social one 'round hyar! {-;
Actually though, I kinda like that "mature" category's description at least as much as the "highest" category's. The 2 certainly seem to be .. hhmmmm.. harmonious with each other, eh.
I'm bettin' the "better" believers will turn up in the same range. The "despicable and sociopathic" things which help comprise what those folk profess to believe in are generally discarded as such, which of course just shows how irrelevant the god concept really is when it comes to morality.
My Results Your score puts you in the highest category of social reasoning. You will see ethical and moral values as important to the needs of society and will appeal to basic rights or values. You might say "Honesty is a standard which everyone should accept" or "Life is sacred."
Conformity to ethical norms is important to you, in terms of a responsibility, obligation or commitment for all individuals, although you may be willing to consider exceptions in some particular circumstances. You are likely to suggest that with entitlement or privilege comes responsibility.
You will appeal to considerations of responsible character or integrity in others, preferring a consistent or standard practice of behaviour in order to avoid damage to social institutions such as the legal system.
However, you will want to see an adjusted case-by-case application of standards for the sake of fairness to all people. Lastly, you are very likely to appeal to standards of individual or personal conscience, as well as of honour, dignity or integrity.
Atheists seem to have a handle on social responsibility. I didn't expect anything different. There is no reason to assume that people who do not believe in a god are raving psychopaths, or anymore immoral than the next person.
According to the test, at least, we all seem to be socially well adjusted people. Now all we need is a few believers to take the same test.
BBIM: Now all we need is a few believers to take the same test. Don't expect too much from folks who'll shrug at a few choice genocides in their 'holy' book.
One would be good, two would be better, but half a dozen would be better yet. I want to test a theory, now you've got me thinking about it and I'd like a decent sized sample.
Actually, now that I've read through your comments...I'm sorry I even posted my results here. I can't believe the misinformation and stereotypes represented here. ted said "Wouldn't that be like testing gawd? I don't think they're allowed to do that...."
What the heck? *laughing* Do you hear the word "test" and think it all means the same thing? And to the host/author of the blog--I'd like to introduce myself--My name is Sadie. I have been visiting Jewish Atheist's blog for about a year and he often comments on my posts. I invite you to take a browse through some of my recent posts. :) Might I also encourage you to not think in such biased absolutes? I don't know any of my Christian friends that would assume atheists wouldn't score well on a test of morality. You said... There is no reason to assume that people who do not believe in a god are raving psychopaths, or anymore immoral than the next person.
You're absolutely right. Quite frankly, I believe I would have answered the questions the same now as I would have before I became a Christian.
My Results Your score puts you in the highest category of social reasoning. You will see ethical and moral values as important to the needs of society and will appeal to basic rights or values. You might say "Honesty is a standard which everyone should accept" or "Life is sacred."
Conformity to ethical norms is important to you, in terms of a responsibility, obligation or commitment for all individuals, although you may be willing to consider exceptions in some particular circumstances. You are likely to suggest that with entitlement or privilege comes responsibility.
You will appeal to considerations of responsible character or integrity in others, preferring a consistent or standard practice of behaviour in order to avoid damage to social institutions such as the legal system.
However, you will want to see an adjusted case-by-case application of standards for the sake of fairness to all people. Lastly, you are very likely to appeal to standards of individual or personal conscience, as well as of honour, dignity or integrity.
Background Scores on the questionnaire form a scale that tracks the development of reasoning from childhood through to adulthood about social, ethical and moral issues. The original research using this questionnaire was conducted in the United States by Kohlberg and was followed up by John Gibbs, Karen Basinger and Dick Fuller.
Most children make decisions based on the influence of power and authority figures, progressing through an emphasis upon exchange relationships with others, then on to mutual and social expectations.
Some people progress to a level where they base their moral reasoning on universal values. Others become fixed at earlier stages depending upon circumstances. But recent research has suggested that it is possible to change the way you reason about your social responsibilities.
Thanks for that "whose" fix, Beep! The first edition tweaked my inner Grammar Nazi into a fit.
{-;
Howdy Sadie. I'll not speak for anyone but me when I say I know plenty of wonderful folk who're christian, or some other supernaturalist view of reality. I also know more than just a few such folk who think atheists queers and sundry other good and free folk should be banished from society for some imagined "bad behaviour" in the believers' brains.
I don't mind so much. I just find it amusing at best, and frustrating most often that the moral believers can't see that they've the same beliefs as the immoral. For the same reasons. Otherwise the object of Faith is merely metaphor, just as an atheist affirms.
I also know more than just a few such folk who think atheists queers and sundry other good and free folk should be banished from society for some imagined "bad behaviour" in the believers' brains. Howdy yourself! :) Oh, I know there are some Christians that have that kind of world view but I would like to submit that these people might not know the same God I know. The God I know didn't send His only Son to die for the world's sins in order that only "good" people who believe in him. In fact, Jesus said that he didn't come to save the people who think they are "moral". He said he came to heal the "sick". I would like to suggest that individuals that maintain their "poo" don't stink--don't know what it means to have a real relationship with the God that created them.
"You're absolutely right. Quite frankly, I believe I would have answered the questions the same now as I would have before I became a Christian."
I agree. I think I would have answered the questions in the same way when I was a christian.
The point was that many believers, whether they be christians, muslims or religious jews, have the opinion that one cannot be a moral human being without a god belief, or without a religious belief.
What I think the test indicates, is that the majority of people have a good sense of morality with orr without a god belief.
Certainly, as this test indicates, they can have a good sense of social responsibility, without a religion or a god belief.
What it does indicate, is that neither god belief, nor religious belief, nor the lack of them, are a guarantee of morality.
Regarding ted's comment of "Wouldn't that be like testing gawd? I don't think they're allowed to do that.... "
I understand why he said that. So, let me explain why I think he did.
Many believers believe that they are now different, better, more moral people because of their god belief. Some of them, maybe many of them, also believe that without their god belief, or the grace of their god, that they would slip back into a state of sin or immorality.
Some of them, at least, would see the questionnaire as a "test of faith". That to do the test would be testing whether or not their god belief , or the grace of their god, has made them a "better person" - a more moral person.
Therefore, they would have seen this as testing "god's grace", "the will of god," or their belief in a god. No doubt they would also have posted quite a few pieces from the bible where they believe they are not to do this.
So, as I said, I understand the context of ted's comments.
I uderstand the context of ted's comment but I still think it's a misrepresentation of that particular doctrine. 2Corinthians 13:5 ¶ Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified.
I agree with you. I think, as Beep does too that I would have scored the same when I was a christian. But no, I don't see the word "test" and "think it all means the same thing". Beep's hit the nail on the head as far the "testing of God" is concerned. When I was a christian we were encouraged, as you point out, to test ourselves regularly. Testing God on the other hand was strictly forbidden.
I have to also agree with MB.
But, the main reason I said that is because we have had many discussions here where christians have constantly asserted that "morality comes from god" and as Beep pointed out "Without god you can't be moral." which as you agree, seems to be a complete load of fetid dingo's kidneys.
The problem with that argument though, is that when a test like this comes along it constitues evidence, real evidence, that all morals do not come from god. I cdidn't think we'd see any of the regulars, and we haven't yet...
I apologise for catching you in that stereo-type Sadie, as you obviously don't belong in it...
Thanks Ted. I appreciate that. I also don't see how taking an internet test on morality has anything to do with testing God but to each his own. I also do not see how someone that claims to be a Christian can so quickly forget that they were and are SINNERS--just covered by grace. ???
Of course, you are right. It's not so much testing god as testing faith. If you were one that believes that all morality comes from god, I doubt you would have published your results, if you took the test at all.
In my experience, some christians think that once they've accepted Jesus, they are absolved of sin.
Is it your belief that now you are born again that you can't sin? Is this what "covered by grace" means?
In my experience, some christians think that once they've accepted Jesus, they are absolved of sin.
Ew. I'm glad I have the opportunity to set the record straight. I have run into some sects of Christianity that preach the false doctrine that once you are a believer, you have achieved sinless perfection.
Not so.
I sin. I repent daily at night when I pray, alone, to God. I am convicted of my sin almost during the action. I have a real problem with gossip, for example. It's hard for me not to talk about people with other people. I think everyone would agree that they have been hurt by slander at one time or another. I still reap the consequence of my gossip--people sometimes find out that I talked smack about them. (what goes around comes around!) But I repented and part of repentance is that I turn from the sin. I try to stop doing it. Also, God forgives me. He has already forgiven my past, present, and future sin because of Jesus' final death on the cross--he paid for all sins. (this is what Christians call GRACE) But this doesn't give me a license to have a sin party! I still am accountable to God. And I love him and I love Jesus and I want to lead a good life and be good to people but I believe this is only really possible through daily repentance and a relationship with God. He has put a desire in me to call every thought or motivation into question. I also believe he isn't going to judge me for my sins and that I will be rewarded for fighting my desires to sin (this is what Christians call FAITH!).
Christians that tell you they don't sin are liars. 1 John 1. And that's just a fact. You can tell those people I said that. :)
sadie: But I repented and part of repentance is that I turn from the sin. See, here's where I have a HUGE problem. By this doctrine of 'original sin', it's assumed the maker has hobbled his/her/it's offspring. What parent asks that their children be born handicapped? It's the equivalent of 'Oh, hey doc: listen, I don't want life to be too easy for the kid. Can you like, take off a coupla fingers? Cleft a palate? Give the child crossed-eyes?' It makes no sense to me whatsoever. It's cruel. It's ridiculous. It casts the deity in the role of some mad doctor. Tough love, I can understand. But you don't throw TOO many obstacles at a child: they never develop then. & as a result, xtians have a plethora of self-esteem issues: mortals just never are quite GOOD enough to make any grade. So they're forced to a very unhealthy co-dependence on said parent. & if you look at the structure in nature, 1 thing is clear: the child will ALWAYS succeed the parent. So why build a structure, but not work w/in it? Why always outside of it? It's senseless.
Beep-- You really have to read what I say instead of whatever it is you're doing. No, it's not a "get out of jail free card". I said in that comment: But this doesn't give me a license to have a sin party!
I'm really willing to stay and be a Christian voice here but I'm not willing to be the public fool for your entertainment--which is the feeling I'm starting to get around here and since you're the blog-host, I'm trying to feel you out the most. If I can't count on you to be civil, how can I expect that from guests. Just say the words and I'll stop coming and leave you and your guests to your atheist clique.
KA--I respect and value the way you engage me. I'll be back to answer your questions after I test the climate here. Thanks.
This is a skeptical/atheist/agnostic blog. There may be many issues discussed here to which you might take personal offence.
And people who visit this blog, may challenge your beliefs. How someone challenges someone else's beliefs is of some importance though.
I have a commenter who posts "f*ck you beep beep" on mumerous occasions. I don't take much notice of this, as I am almost certain that it is that lunatic ricky who trolls bacon eating atheist jew's blog.
So, I can't guarantee you that people will always be civil though I would hope that ad hominem comments were not the standard defence or attack.
I don't moderate comments in here except if people are being threatened with violence. Then their comments will be deleted by myself.
Aparts from that, people are welcome to argue point by point on whatever issue they consider worthy of their attention or interest.
Yeah. I can see that this blog is mildly moderated. I don't mind if people want to be objectionable but I won't tolerate being ridiculed for the sake of sport or entertainment. I'm simply here to learn and to be challenged by being forced to step up to the plate. There's a big difference between a discussion and a stone throwing contest. I don't like the latter. Anyhoo, I'll continue to participate but I'm not going to address your guests that are just out for blood.
sadie: KA--I respect and value the way you engage me. I'll be back to answer your questions after I test the climate here. Thanks. You're welcome. That's actually amusing, in a way. I'm usually the 1 beating people up around here. In my own defense, I'd like to say is that it's usually someone who's incredibly obnoxious. Which you don't seem to be. & don't take too much personally - we're a cynical, irreverent lot. We view sacred cows as hamburger - so we tend to make comments about condiments.;) So breathe & relax a little.
I am pretty sure I would get a different rating each time I did it. A reflection of my "mercurial nature" perhaps, rather than a reflection on the test.
My revised version.
morality , 
moral , 
social responsibility , 
ethics , 
green day , 
youtube , 
questionnaire , 
BBC 
52 Comments:
27.5
Your score puts you in the mature category of social reasoning and the majority of people will have scores in this range. Thinking here transcends the practicalities of one's preferences and exchanges to an emphasis upon social feeling, caring and conduct.
You take into account the consequences of actions for other people, whether for benefit or harm, as a consideration in its own right for deciding how one should act towards others. You emphasise relationships, thinking how you might feel if you were on the receiving end. Empathy is important, as well as compassion.
You are likely to expect others to conform to normally expected conduct, reflecting on "common decency" and will think of the chaos caused by laws being broken. You will value, love and respect others, and appreciate some higher values, as well as speaking of the benefits of a clean conscience or pride.
Disappointed I didn;t finish higher up.
40 out of 44. 66%
Your score puts you in the highest category of social reasoning. You will see ethical and moral values as important to the needs of society and will appeal to basic rights or values. You might say "Honesty is a standard which everyone should accept" or "Life is sacred."
Conformity to ethical norms is important to you, in terms of a responsibility, obligation or commitment for all individuals, although you may be willing to consider exceptions in some particular circumstances. You are likely to suggest that with entitlement or privilege comes responsibility.
You will appeal to considerations of responsible character or integrity in others, preferring a consistent or standard practice of behaviour in order to avoid damage to social institutions such as the legal system.
However, you will want to see an adjusted case-by-case application of standards for the sake of fairness to all people. Lastly, you are very likely to appeal to standards of individual or personal conscience, as well as of honour, dignity or integrity.
Curious that behavior & honor were spelled the old-fashioned way.
33.5
Your score puts you in the mature category of social reasoning and the majority of people will have scores in this range. Thinking here transcends the practicalities of one's preferences and exchanges to an emphasis upon social feeling, caring and conduct.
You take into account the consequences of actions for other people, whether for benefit or harm, as a consideration in its own right for deciding how one should act towards others. You emphasise relationships, thinking how you might feel if you were on the receiving end. Empathy is important, as well as compassion.
You are likely to expect others to conform to normally expected conduct, reflecting on "common decency" and will think of the chaos caused by laws being broken. You will value, love and respect others, and appreciate some higher values, as well as speaking of the benefits of a clean conscience or pride.
Re KA: Curious that behavior & honor were spelled the old-fashioned way.
BBC - It is the British way....:)
Not posting mine yet, but thanks again to those who have taken the questionnaire.
Come on you flyby blog readers, participate, or I will have to smack.
My Results 42/44
Your score puts you in the highest category of social reasoning. You will see ethical and moral values as important to the needs of society and will appeal to basic rights or values. You might say "Honesty is a standard which everyone should accept" or "Life is sacred."
Conformity to ethical norms is important to you, in terms of a responsibility, obligation or commitment for all individuals, although you may be willing to consider exceptions in some particular circumstances. You are likely to suggest that with entitlement or privilege comes responsibility.
You will appeal to considerations of responsible character or integrity in others, preferring a consistent or standard practice of behaviour in order to avoid damage to social institutions such as the legal system.
However, you will want to see an adjusted case-by-case application of standards for the sake of fairness to all people. Lastly, you are very likely to appeal to standards of individual or personal conscience, as well as of honour, dignity or integrity.
This was mine. Maybe I need some re-adjustment to fit more easily into american society. I'm not the norm! ; (
you scored 39.5 out of a total of 44.
your score puts you in the highest category of social reasoning. you will see ethical and moral values as important to the needs of society and will appeal to basic rights or values. you might say "honesty is a standard which everyone should accept" or "life is sacred."
conformity to ethical norms is important to you, in terms of a responsibility, obligation or commitment for all individuals, although you may be willing to consider exceptions in some particular circumstances. you are likely to suggest that with entitlement or privilege comes responsibility.
you will appeal to considerations of responsible character or integrity in others, preferring a consistent or standard practice of behaviour in order to avoid damage to social institutions such as the legal system.
however, you will want to see an adjusted case-by-case application of standards for the sake of fairness to all people. lastly, you are very likely to appeal to standards of individual or personal conscience, as well as of honour, dignity or integrity.
You scored 38 out of a total of 44.
Your score puts you in the highest category of social reasoning. You will see ethical and moral values as important to the needs of society and will appeal to basic rights or values. You might say "Honesty is a standard which everyone should accept" or "Life is sacred."
Conformity to ethical norms is important to you, in terms of a responsibility, obligation or commitment for all individuals, although you may be willing to consider exceptions in some particular circumstances. You are likely to suggest that with entitlement or privilege comes responsibility.
You will appeal to considerations of responsible character or integrity in others, preferring a consistent or standard practice of behaviour in order to avoid damage to social institutions such as the legal system.
However, you will want to see an adjusted case-by-case application of standards for the sake of fairness to all people. Lastly, you are very likely to appeal to standards of individual or personal conscience, as well as of honour, dignity or integrity.
I thought it was bolloks though,..
So, far, by my reckoning, only agnostics, skeptics or atheists have taken the challenge. Come on you believers, I know you are out there, come and do the questionnaire. :)
You scored 36 out of a total of 44.
My Results
Your score puts you in the mature category of social reasoning and the majority of people will have scores in this range. Thinking here transcends the practicalities of one's preferences and exchanges to an emphasis upon social feeling, caring and conduct.
You take into account the consequences of actions for other people, whether for benefit or harm, as a consideration in its own right for deciding how one should act towards others. You emphasize relationships, thinking how you might feel if you were on the receiving end. Empathy is important, as well as compassion.
You are likely to expect others to conform to normally expected conduct, reflecting on "common decency" and will think of the chaos caused by laws being broken. You will value, love and respect others, and appreciate some higher values, as well as speaking of the benefits of a clean conscience or pride.
Here ya go. I forgot to get the number but here's what it said.
Your score puts you in the highest category of social reasoning. You will see ethical and moral values as important to the needs of society and will appeal to basic rights or values. You might say "Honesty is a standard which everyone should accept" or "Life is sacred."
Conformity to ethical norms is important to you, in terms of a responsibility, obligation or commitment for all individuals, although you may be willing to consider exceptions in some particular circumstances. You are likely to suggest that with entitlement or privilege comes responsibility.
You will appeal to considerations of responsible character or integrity in others, preferring a consistent or standard practice of behaviour in order to avoid damage to social institutions such as the legal system.
However, you will want to see an adjusted case-by-case application of standards for the sake of fairness to all people. Lastly, you are very likely to appeal to standards of individual or personal conscience, as well as of honour, dignity or integrity.
40.5 / 44
My return said the same as everyone's but Dikkii's. Dude!, guess that makes you the anti-social one 'round hyar! {-;
Actually though, I kinda like that "mature" category's description at least as much as the "highest" category's. The 2 certainly seem to be .. hhmmmm.. harmonious with each other, eh.
I'm bettin' the "better" believers will turn up in the same range. The "despicable and sociopathic" things which help comprise what those folk profess to believe in are generally discarded as such, which of course just shows how irrelevant the god concept really is when it comes to morality.
Mine was similar to most people as well.
You scored 43 out of a total of 44.
Audience's Scores
1 % 1 % 32 % 66 %
My Results
Your score puts you in the highest category of social reasoning. You will see ethical and moral values as important to the needs of society and will appeal to basic rights or values. You might say "Honesty is a standard which everyone should accept" or "Life is sacred."
Conformity to ethical norms is important to you, in terms of a responsibility, obligation or commitment for all individuals, although you may be willing to consider exceptions in some particular circumstances. You are likely to suggest that with entitlement or privilege comes responsibility.
You will appeal to considerations of responsible character or integrity in others, preferring a consistent or standard practice of behaviour in order to avoid damage to social institutions such as the legal system.
However, you will want to see an adjusted case-by-case application of standards for the sake of fairness to all people. Lastly, you are very likely to appeal to standards of individual or personal conscience, as well as of honour, dignity or integrity.
Atheists seem to have a handle on social responsibility. I didn't expect anything different. There is no reason to assume that people who do not believe in a god are raving psychopaths, or anymore immoral than the next person.
According to the test, at least, we all seem to be socially well adjusted people. Now all we need is a few believers to take the same test.
38.5
Highest category of social reasoning. Etc.
Re Beep: Now all we need is a few believers to take the same test.
Wouldn't that be like testing gawd? I don't think they're allowed to do that....
BBIM:
Now all we need is a few believers to take the same test.
Don't expect too much from folks who'll shrug at a few choice genocides in their 'holy' book.
RE ted and KA:
Maybe one will them will be so kind? Perhaps I am expecting too much.
One would be good, two would be better, but half a dozen would be better yet. I want to test a theory, now you've got me thinking about it and I'd like a decent sized sample.
I scored a 33. Same description as Dikii and Ted.
I'm a believer. A Christian--non-denomination. I came here from Jewish Atheist's blog. I scored a 33.
Actually, now that I've read through your comments...I'm sorry I even posted my results here. I can't believe the misinformation and stereotypes represented here.
ted said "Wouldn't that be like testing gawd? I don't think they're allowed to do that...."
What the heck? *laughing* Do you hear the word "test" and think it all means the same thing?
And to the host/author of the blog--I'd like to introduce myself--My name is Sadie. I have been visiting Jewish Atheist's blog for about a year and he often comments on my posts.
I invite you to take a browse through some of my recent posts.
:)
Might I also encourage you to not think in such biased absolutes?
I don't know any of my Christian friends that would assume atheists wouldn't score well on a test of morality.
You said...
There is no reason to assume that people who do not believe in a god are raving psychopaths, or anymore immoral than the next person.
You're absolutely right. Quite frankly, I believe I would have answered the questions the same now as I would have before I became a Christian.
Results
You scored 39 out of a total of 44.
Audience's Scores
1 % 1 % 32 % 66 %
0-11 12-22 23-33 34-44
My Results
Your score puts you in the highest category of social reasoning. You will see ethical and moral values as important to the needs of society and will appeal to basic rights or values. You might say "Honesty is a standard which everyone should accept" or "Life is sacred."
Conformity to ethical norms is important to you, in terms of a responsibility, obligation or commitment for all individuals, although you may be willing to consider exceptions in some particular circumstances. You are likely to suggest that with entitlement or privilege comes responsibility.
You will appeal to considerations of responsible character or integrity in others, preferring a consistent or standard practice of behaviour in order to avoid damage to social institutions such as the legal system.
However, you will want to see an adjusted case-by-case application of standards for the sake of fairness to all people. Lastly, you are very likely to appeal to standards of individual or personal conscience, as well as of honour, dignity or integrity.
Background
Scores on the questionnaire form a scale that tracks the development of reasoning from childhood through to adulthood about social, ethical and moral issues. The original research using this questionnaire was conducted in the United States by Kohlberg and was followed up by John Gibbs, Karen Basinger and Dick Fuller.
Most children make decisions based on the influence of power and authority figures, progressing through an emphasis upon exchange relationships with others, then on to mutual and social expectations.
Some people progress to a level where they base their moral reasoning on universal values. Others become fixed at earlier stages depending upon circumstances. But recent research has suggested that it is possible to change the way you reason about your social responsibilities.
Thanks for that "whose" fix, Beep! The first edition tweaked my inner Grammar Nazi into a fit.
{-;
Howdy Sadie. I'll not speak for anyone but me when I say I know plenty of wonderful folk who're christian, or some other supernaturalist view of reality. I also know more than just a few such folk who think atheists queers and sundry other good and free folk should be banished from society for some imagined "bad behaviour" in the believers' brains.
I don't mind so much. I just find it amusing at best, and frustrating most often that the moral believers can't see that they've the same beliefs as the immoral. For the same reasons. Otherwise the object of Faith is merely metaphor, just as an atheist affirms.
Have fun and see ya.
I also know more than just a few such folk who think atheists queers and sundry other good and free folk should be banished from society for some imagined "bad behaviour" in the believers' brains.
Howdy yourself!
:)
Oh, I know there are some Christians that have that kind of world view but I would like to submit that these people might not know the same God I know. The God I know didn't send His only Son to die for the world's sins in order that only "good" people who believe in him.
In fact, Jesus said that he didn't come to save the people who think they are "moral". He said he came to heal the "sick".
I would like to suggest that individuals that maintain their "poo" don't stink--don't know what it means to have a real relationship with the God that created them.
RE sadie:
"You're absolutely right. Quite frankly, I believe I would have answered the questions the same now as I would have before I became a Christian."
I agree. I think I would have answered the questions in the same way when I was a christian.
The point was that many believers, whether they be christians, muslims or religious jews, have the opinion that one cannot be a moral human being without a god belief, or without a religious belief.
What I think the test indicates, is that the majority of people have a good sense of morality with orr without a god belief.
Certainly, as this test indicates, they can have a good sense of social responsibility, without a religion or a god belief.
What it does indicate, is that neither god belief, nor religious belief, nor the lack of them, are a guarantee of morality.
RE sadie:
Regarding ted's comment of "Wouldn't that be like testing gawd? I don't think they're allowed to do that.... "
I understand why he said that. So, let me explain why I think he did.
Many believers believe that they are now different, better, more moral people because of their god belief. Some of them, maybe many of them, also believe that without their god belief, or the grace of their god, that they would slip back into a state of sin or immorality.
Some of them, at least, would see the questionnaire as a "test of faith". That to do the test would be testing whether or not their god belief , or the grace of their god, has made them a "better person" - a more moral person.
Therefore, they would have seen this as testing "god's grace", "the will of god," or their belief in a god. No doubt they would also have posted quite a few pieces from the bible where they believe they are not to do this.
So, as I said, I understand the context of ted's comments.
I uderstand the context of ted's comment but I still think it's a misrepresentation of that particular doctrine.
2Corinthians 13:5 ¶ Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified.
Quite the opposite is true.
RE sadie:
"On the other hand, it is written, 'You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.'" (Matthew 4:5-7)
I scored 41 out of 44
Re: Lt
Another agnostic/ atheist with a good sense of moral and social responsibility. I didn't expect anything less. :)
Sadie:
I agree with you. I think, as Beep does too that I would have scored the same when I was a christian. But no, I don't see the word "test" and "think it all means the same thing". Beep's hit the nail on the head as far the "testing of God" is concerned. When I was a christian we were encouraged, as you point out, to test ourselves regularly. Testing God on the other hand was strictly forbidden.
I have to also agree with MB.
But, the main reason I said that is because we have had many discussions here where christians have constantly asserted that "morality comes from god" and as Beep pointed out "Without god you can't be moral." which as you agree, seems to be a complete load of fetid dingo's kidneys.
The problem with that argument though, is that when a test like this comes along it constitues evidence, real evidence, that all morals do not come from god. I cdidn't think we'd see any of the regulars, and we haven't yet...
I apologise for catching you in that stereo-type Sadie, as you obviously don't belong in it...
Thanks Ted.
I appreciate that.
I also don't see how taking an internet test on morality has anything to do with testing God but to each his own.
I also do not see how someone that claims to be a Christian can so quickly forget that they were and are SINNERS--just covered by grace.
???
RE sadie
Is it your belief that now you are born again that you can't sin? Is this what "covered by grace" means?
Sadie:
No worries...:)
Of course, you are right. It's not so much testing god as testing faith. If you were one that believes that all morality comes from god, I doubt you would have published your results, if you took the test at all.
In my experience, some christians think that once they've accepted Jesus, they are absolved of sin.
Is it your belief that now you are born again that you can't sin? Is this what "covered by grace" means?
In my experience, some christians think that once they've accepted Jesus, they are absolved of sin.
Ew.
I'm glad I have the opportunity to set the record straight.
I have run into some sects of Christianity that preach the false doctrine that once you are a believer, you have achieved sinless perfection.
Not so.
I sin.
I repent daily at night when I pray, alone, to God.
I am convicted of my sin almost during the action. I have a real problem with gossip, for example. It's hard for me not to talk about people with other people. I think everyone would agree that they have been hurt by slander at one time or another. I still reap the consequence of my gossip--people sometimes find out that I talked smack about them. (what goes around comes around!)
But I repented and part of repentance is that I turn from the sin. I try to stop doing it. Also, God forgives me. He has already forgiven my past, present, and future sin because of Jesus' final death on the cross--he paid for all sins. (this is what Christians call GRACE)
But this doesn't give me a license to have a sin party!
I still am accountable to God. And I love him and I love Jesus and I want to lead a good life and be good to people but I believe this is only really possible through daily repentance and a relationship with God. He has put a desire in me to call every thought or motivation into question. I also believe he isn't going to judge me for my sins and that I will be rewarded for fighting my desires to sin (this is what Christians call FAITH!).
Christians that tell you they don't sin are liars. 1 John 1. And that's just a fact. You can tell those people I said that.
:)
So "under grace" just means that you are still capable of sin, but that god will forgive you of sin.
Seems to be the "get out of jail card for free."
How many times can you use the card? Does it have an expiry date? And can it be revoked for overuse, like a credit card?
Saidie: He has already forgiven my past, present, and future sin
That would mean that your sins come pre-forgiven wouldn't it?
sadie:
But I repented and part of repentance is that I turn from the sin.
See, here's where I have a HUGE problem.
By this doctrine of 'original sin', it's assumed the maker has hobbled his/her/it's offspring. What parent asks that their children be born handicapped? It's the equivalent of 'Oh, hey doc: listen, I don't want life to be too easy for the kid. Can you like, take off a coupla fingers? Cleft a palate? Give the child crossed-eyes?'
It makes no sense to me whatsoever. It's cruel. It's ridiculous. It casts the deity in the role of some mad doctor.
Tough love, I can understand. But you don't throw TOO many obstacles at a child: they never develop then.
& as a result, xtians have a plethora of self-esteem issues: mortals just never are quite GOOD enough to make any grade. So they're forced to a very unhealthy co-dependence on said parent.
& if you look at the structure in nature, 1 thing is clear: the child will ALWAYS succeed the parent. So why build a structure, but not work w/in it? Why always outside of it?
It's senseless.
Beep--
You really have to read what I say instead of whatever it is you're doing. No, it's not a "get out of jail free card". I said in that comment:
But this doesn't give me a license to have a sin party!
I'm really willing to stay and be a Christian voice here but I'm not willing to be the public fool for your entertainment--which is the feeling I'm starting to get around here and since you're the blog-host, I'm trying to feel you out the most. If I can't count on you to be civil, how can I expect that from guests.
Just say the words and I'll stop coming and leave you and your guests to your atheist clique.
KA--I respect and value the way you engage me. I'll be back to answer your questions after I test the climate here.
Thanks.
RE sadie
This is a skeptical/atheist/agnostic blog. There may be many issues discussed here to which you might take personal offence.
And people who visit this blog, may challenge your beliefs. How someone challenges someone else's beliefs is of some importance though.
I have a commenter who posts "f*ck you beep beep" on mumerous occasions. I don't take much notice of this, as I am almost certain that it is that lunatic ricky who trolls bacon eating atheist jew's blog.
So, I can't guarantee you that people will always be civil though I would hope that ad hominem comments were not the standard defence or attack.
I don't moderate comments in here except if people are being threatened with violence. Then their comments will be deleted by myself.
Aparts from that, people are welcome to argue point by point on whatever issue they consider worthy of their attention or interest.
Welcome to the fray and hold onto your hat.
Yeah. I can see that this blog is mildly moderated. I don't mind if people want to be objectionable but I won't tolerate being ridiculed for the sake of sport or entertainment. I'm simply here to learn and to be challenged by being forced to step up to the plate.
There's a big difference between a discussion and a stone throwing contest.
I don't like the latter.
Anyhoo,
I'll continue to participate but I'm not going to address your guests that are just out for blood.
sadie:
KA--I respect and value the way you engage me. I'll be back to answer your questions after I test the climate here.
Thanks.
You're welcome.
That's actually amusing, in a way.
I'm usually the 1 beating people up around here.
In my own defense, I'd like to say is that it's usually someone who's incredibly obnoxious. Which you don't seem to be.
& don't take too much personally - we're a cynical, irreverent lot. We view sacred cows as hamburger - so we tend to make comments about condiments.;)
So breathe & relax a little.
42.5
RE sacred slut:
Thanks for participating.
Sorry to be so terse.... I tried 4x before it took my input. I got briefer each time. Are swear words verboten?
Interesting test. I'm a good test-taker though. :)
My husband pointed out there should not be half points. So I must have had 42.
I think I'm losing it.
RE sacred slut:
I dunno. Blogger chucks a hissy fit sometimes. As far I know, it doesn't react to swearing.
I got 40/44. Not bad. I don't like the "fitting in with the social norms" part. Screw normal.
RE king
"Normal" sounds so boring. Thanks for doin the test and for posting your result.
Just re-did it and got 39.5.
Not sure I trust these online survey thingys.
RE dikki:
I am pretty sure I would get a different rating each time I did it. A reflection of my "mercurial nature" perhaps, rather than a reflection on the test.
Tests are only indicators afterall.
i got a 40.
sal
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